This section seems like the right place to ask…

I would like to increase protein in my diet, and thought I’d try protein powder. Just as a once a day supplement. Or as a boost after a work out. 
 

Does anyone have any recommendations of plant based ones that taste nice?!…. Oxymoron?! 

In reply to Whoopdeedoo:

https://www.rawsport.com/collections/best-selling-products-1/products/elite...

Salted caramel is decent. Keep an eye out for offers as there's always something on to reduce the price (3 for 2 etc)

In reply to Whoopdeedoo:

Whichever supplement you choose, I'd recommend listening to the ClimbSci podcast on protein for a good understanding on how the body uses protein, to ensure you're taking it at the right time (despite what the industry tells you, pre-workout and post-workout shakes may not be optimal, unless you're a full time athlete who gets to structure their entire day around training)

In reply to Whoopdeedoo:

For plant based protein powder I use https://www.theproteinworks.com/vegan-protein-extreme.

Whey is probably a bit better, from what I have read, but disagrees with me.

The banana and vanilla are quite nice, though not as good as whey based ones.

In reply to Whoopdeedoo:

I used to knock back this stuff once a day. Gave me the shits but didn’t make me any better at climbing. The SciMx stuff probably tasted the best.

In reply to Ciro:

Thanks, I’ll have a search 👍

In reply to Whoopdeedoo:

Whey is the way to go if you want to save money or just do like i do,4 egg whites in a pint of milk.I ve  heard about the body not digesting the egg white protien but ive been doing it for years and you should see my biceps.

In reply to Whoopdeedoo:

Save your money and just eat well, cheaper and better long term. 

In reply to ExiledScot:

Not realistic for everyone though. There can be many reasons for supplementing. Eating disorders, illness, diet restrictions. It’s not just about people being lazy, and even if that is the reason, who are we to judge?

I use supplements for my own reasons.

In reply to jezb1:

I've no objection to people literally peeing their own good money away, but in 99% of cases eating a wholemeal bread, chicken and salad sandwich more than suffices as a post training snack. You can go into complete/incomplete proteins, sources for all amino acids etc.. but most people aren't putting in the level of training for that to matter. But as you say each to their own. 

Note. In my youth I've wasted good money on shakes, powders (legal stuff), creatine etc.. I think the only advantage for most people is psychological, because you've spent the money, taken the supplement, then you train harder to justify it, or to feel you haven't wasted it.  

In reply to ExiledScot:

Protein and Creatine both have a lifetimes worth of studies showing their potential benefits, well beyond psychological, along with training of course.

Theres plenty of food sources for protein but protein shakes aren't necessarily expensive, mine works out at 50p per shake, for 20g of protein. “Peeing it away” may of course happen if you’re ingesting too much for your body to deal with, but not if you have a sensible amount.

Especially in recent years, so many climbers are putting a ton of time into training, perhaps spending quite a lot on training plans, gym memberships etc. why wouldn’t they consider their diet and perhaps supplements?

In reply to ExiledScot:

I agree with you here in principle but there are two large benefits to using protein supplements - convenience and in my case, appetite. Despite being a typical "hard gainer" with a very high metabolism (up to 100g carbs per hour required during long bike rides to keep me ticking over), I've never had a big appetite. Eating enough protein during a strength cycle always leaves me feeling sick and bloated. Supplementing food with protein powders (which are much lower volume) helps me avoid this and I imagine I'm not alone.  

In reply to Whoopdeedoo:

Pea protein is the best in my experience. Very neutral. I just get a bulk bag of unflavoured and mix it in to smoothies, or some cocoa and soya milk etc makes an easy chocolate flavour. Add banana for banana flavour etc. Choco banana peanut butter is a good option. 

In reply to jezb1:

Of course, never said otherwise, but for most it's drifting into the realms of Brailsford's marginal gains of single digit percentage improvements, when overall diet, a training plan, hydration, rest, recovery, sleep, complementary exercises etc.. help bring double digit improvements. You train hard, study it etc.. so you know climbing training isn't about growing muscle mass, it's endurance, neuro muscular recruitment for strength, and so on... so protein intake isn't the biggest player, much of the science states there's a two hour window after training for consuming a balanced meal, so all these people drinking shakes as they walk out of the gym are being duped to a degree. As said each to their own, but people should realise a healthy snack is just as good.

In reply to ExiledScot:

Keeping on top of protein isn't only about "growing muscle mass".

In reply to ExiledScot:

I'm what decade was a chicken and salad sandwich on wholemeal bread cheaper than a protein shake? 

(although I do agree with what you're saying in general. I just don't think the cost thing is true.) 

In reply to ExiledScot:

Climbers do tend to have well developed forearms and I'm presuming it's muscle.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Any increase in a climbers muscle mass from climbing, on daily level, will require so little extra protein that a normal diet will provide it. 

I think people buy into hype about people eating whole chickens, loads of raw eggs etc.. too much. It obviously sells supplements, because people buy into it. 

In reply to ExiledScot:

???

I never mentioned diet.

In reply to Whoopdeedoo:

I use Bulk Whey protein, chocolate. There are 2 varieties- 'pure' which cost a bit more, and the cheaper 'essential'. You lose 3 grams of protein per scoop with the cheaper one, plus it tastes a bit icky and is more difficult to dissolve so I go with the pure which you can get for about £53 for 2.5kg.

I mix this with 200ml of semi-skimned and 50grams of ground oats, and I also eat a banana with this too. It's quick and healthy, and the cost is probably less than £2 a time. It saves time and money.

In reply to Whoopdeedoo:

Or you could try eating only beef patties from McDonald's for some huge strength gains 💪😅

In reply to Climbing Stew:

It's also especially worth being more aware of one's protein intake if moving to a plant-based diet, as is more common nowadays. When on a plant-based diet, unless one is very conscious of it, it is so easy to be well below the RDA of protein and to omit crucial amino acids. A very easy way of rectifying this is by including protein powder (e.g. pea or hemp) in one's diet.

In reply to Climber_Bill:

another vote for protein works vegan (my tummy doesn't like whey) chocolate, it's well nice

In reply to ExiledScot:

As someone who was following a training plan, has a good diet, etc. but was not putting on muscle mass and then checked out my recommended protein intake against what I was getting for my age (older) and I was well short. Increased protein through whey shake and it was almost like a miracle cure. So much so that my osteopath noted the change in my musculature. 

Now I've always fasted (one meal day) and I'm 56 so I have a couple of things that made my default protein intake low but protein is very much a major influence in hypertrophy.

In reply to Whoopdeedoo:

I used to be very rude about protein shakes but changed my opinion. They are really useful if (and maybe only if) you need to keep protein consumption high at low daily calories. Excellent for sports requiring increased muscle mass (impact sports, bodybuilding, strength training)

But .. I'm not at sure sure whether high protein at low calories is very important for climbers?

Maybe we should dip into some Dave MacLeod, he's bound to have explained this one already 

In reply to ExiledScot:

I will happily reiterate the words of ExiledScot. As a climbing coach working with advanced athletes, I discourage climbers/anyone from developing a sense of virtue replacement, i.e. if I have one or two shakes per day, I can blissfully ignore my poor sleep habits, diet, hydration etc.

95% of people who use protein supplements or creatine do not in any way, subscribe to a training pattern where these products will benefit them to any useful degree.

Beware of willful ignorance. It is better to understand what these things are and why/how they may benefit the individual. I wont start about individuals who consume both protein supplements and alcohol daily, but as ES said, each to their own. Do something better with the money, unless you are Toby Roberts etc...

In reply to Fishmate:

Smells like a completely made up number that does..!

In reply to Climbing Stew:

Your answer is a perfect example of willfull ignorance.

It's easier to shout something negative than educate yourself. Each to their own.

In reply to Fishmate:

Not really. I'm fairly well educated on the subject of nutrition in relation to sport.

Protein and some other supplements have their place. The science proves that.

Many people seem to forget that they're supplements. They're not intended to replace "regular" food, but be used in addition to them.

If you're going to claim some expertise I find it's best not to make up stats like "95%".

In reply to Climbing Stew:

Heady words indeed. Humour me. What you've said above that line is of course, correct. I'm unsure why you say it as no one is disputing that. Anyone with a modicum of knowledge understands this.

How many people are literally, what we could say are 'athletes'? 1-2% of the population? I'm guessing, and also asking you for your opinion here. By athlete, I mean people for whom their life is defined by training and competing, with no other job to speak of. That life is defined by the output of their training schedule, diet, recovery, little to no social life, no alcohol or other detrimental nutrients, exceptional rest etc etc.

Let's add a couple more percent for our nations part-timers (fell runners, power-lifters, a handful of climbers, add other disciplines as you wish). Basically individuals who need to work to support their passion and aside from their paid employment follow the same rules as the 1-2% professionals.

Such individuals generate a sufficient amount of output, so as to require and benefit from additional nutrients. The key here is that you have to create sufficient output to be in this class. Feeling as though you do a couple of tough workouts or sessions per week or even daily, does not qualify and most definitely not if you aren't following the rules of the 1-2% in the first place.

Studies suggest the figure is even higher. I've done my research and most definitely do not claim to be an expert. It's interesting that my previous few lines make you consider I may think I am. The subject is vast and the best we can do is to keep expanding our knowledge. That requires passion for learning, not online argument..

In reply to ExiledScot:

I get this. But easier said than done with a full time job and 2 young children. I know I can make as many excuses as possible, but atm I am fasting until 2pm each day and then eating a small healthy lunch and dinner. I’d like to add extra protein mid afternoon as a boost.

In reply to Fishmate:

He probably got the impression you were claiming expertise because you claimed to be coaching elite climbers? Then came out with a stat to support your point.

As others have pointed out and you yourself seem to agreeing, supplementation is not a golden bullet but can have a beneficial place for lots of people. Why you make it a mutual exclusive I.e. supplements INSTEAD of sleep/ rest/ structured training is beyond me - surely they overlap and coexist. Protein intake recommendations very wildly based on whoever you ask, but whey protein can be a quick and easy way of getting some protein in that doesn’t necessitate me cooking a chicken or eating another omelette. This on top of good sleep and some decent training = #gains! Don’t get why this has to be adversarial. 

In reply to ExiledScot:

It’s difficult to eat chicken on a plant based diet… it’s also difficult to keep up protein. hence asking for plant based protein recommendations

In reply to Fishmate:

That was probably your appeal to authority on your previous post!

Add my n+1 to the people supporting monitoring and increasing, if required, protein intake, has definitely aided my recovery and therefore training capacity within a week.of course needs to be part of the wider picture, but this is a thread about nutrition. 

In reply to Myr:

This is why I asked. Thank you. 

Although interesting, I didn’t really need opinions on powder vs real food… I’ve done my research.

 Also I’m not doing it for building muscle.

In reply to Whoopdeedoo:

If you like peanut butter, then peanut flour is worth looking at. It sounds hideous, but is actually very nice. Wads of protein, but ‘defatted’.

People use it as an ingredient for recipes, but it makes a nice shake with soya or oat milk and goes well in stuff like porridge.

Holland and Barrett do a version that has a bit of sea salt and natural sweetener which I think is lovely. I eat it straight from the jar!

https://www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product/ppb-powdered-peanut-butter-o...

In reply to Ramon Marin:

Thank you

In reply to plyometrics:

This is great! And perhaps just what I’n looking for! Thank you!

I have been caught many times by my husband eating peanut butter from the jar! 

In reply to Wyre Forest Illuminati:

It was to offer a reason as to why I may have taken the effort to look into the subject, rather than merely hold and offer up an opinion. It was his choice to draw such a conclusion, but most definitely not the only possible conclusion. I'd dare to say, the conclusion of someone who wishes to detract from anothers comment!

I don't see it as being adversarial. The amazing thing about the internet is that it allows published academic research to be made available to the masses. Some of this suggests, many brands of supplements offer next to nothing beyond a placebo effect. Why? They know full well that they will sell, because matey in the gym said it's a must have and wants to believe, i.e. confirmation bias. They also know that very few will look at the list of ingredients (and the quantities of those ingredients) and establish their worth. Go figure..

It is to a degree, exclusive, although not totally. Most of that extra protein will get processed and put to good use during sleep. A good diet aids the process.. It's a comprehensive picture, and not one made of interchangeable parts).

In reply to Wyre Forest Illuminati:

You do realise I joined the thread to support adversarial reactions to ExiledScots comment. Just in case yiu hadn't read the whole thread.

In reply to Fishmate:

You have quite a wordy and difficult to follow writing style, so I’m not really sure what point you’re making. There’s a huge amount of research to show that protein and creatine are beneficial to recovery/ strength training and maintenance of body composition. Suggesting that all this is placebo just isn’t true. If you’re suggesting that nobody but elite level climbers need to bother looking after their macro intakes I’ll have to disagree with you I’m afraid. I’m not saying ‘just take protein’ but getting macros right on top of rest/ training will benefit anyone, regardless of level. Especially in relation to the OP who I think is non meat eating. Anyway, I think I’m done - in answer to the OP: just give it a go, I go for the cheapo whey protein and mix in creatine monohydrate, I find pea protein a bit grim tbh. Another alternative is those Skyr yoghurts which have knocking on 50g of protein in a tub ans have some good fats in too. 

In reply to Whoopdeedoo:

Go with Pea. Avoid hemp protein IMO the taste is awful unless you enjoy eating soil, and its low in leucine.

Having tried lots of protein powders, whatever you do, just buy a few small packs of different brands/flavors at first as some are inedible. Don't rush in and buy many kgs!

In reply to Wyre Forest Illuminati:

That is a silly comment. To quote myself, "Some of this suggests, many brands of supplements offer next to nothing beyond a placebo effect". I'm confident my wordiness didn't mask that.

Taken from the Harvard Medical School site. "Anyone considering protein powder should understand that it is classified as a dietary supplement, which means it is not regulated in the same way as food or medicine. Responsibility falls on manufacturers to ensure that their products are not hazardous, though many companies do not test for safety or efficacy before their offerings hit shelves".

I'll leave it there. I'm glad your approach works for you.

In reply to Whoopdeedoo: great, you know what you want and why you want it. I’m having good results from Myvegan.com products which came recommended by my daughter. Usually possible to get a code to reduce the price. She takes it as a vegan to supplement her diet, I take it as whey doesn’t work for me and as an older person I wasn’t getting enough protein through my diet as we are pretty much meat free. It’s working for me. Various flavours and types, I’m liking the chocolate and the strawberry plus the clear protein drinks. Others have mentioned the pea proteins and I find them ok. Whoever said not to buy in bulk to start with is spot on, shop about and find what you like.

In reply to Whoopdeedoo:

Protein pills work well, as long as you remember to put your helmet on.